00:00:00 [Music] here we go 3 to one we are live this podcast is being recorded before a live studio audience possibly for the first time in a while so K welcome to the latest episode of the b b podcast um people who may be listening for a while you might remember that we used to live stream these into our be better community group on Facebook which is where all our awesome beot clients hang out and we haven’t been doing that for a while but today we are back and doing it and so hopefully we might get some of

00:00:44 our awesome client Community popping in to ask my guest today some questions which I’m sure he’s really really enthralled about and hoping there’s goingon to be no curly ones um thank you as always to our listeners um both of you or whoever you are um one man that one person on the internet who’s listening thank you so much um if you’re new to podcast welcome um hopefully you enjoy it and um you can check out some more of ours or even go and check out some of hers podcasts which I’m sure we’ll talk about his podcast um but

00:01:08 without further Ado um I will welcome today’s guest Mr Ian Harvey from collective intelligence half how’s it going all right mate thank you for inviting me to in live streaming I’m trying not to think you know what that might look like and who’s watching because the great thing with podcast normally you go oh that’s crap and just scrub it out but we can’t do us we can’t do that we we are all in um there’s been a couple of couple of people liking and thumbs uping and and giving some comments so or giving some some some

00:01:40 appreciation to it so Happy Days um so for people who don’t know who you are who are you what do you do uh lot uh people call me in half uh I’m the founder of collective intelligence which is an ecosystem of people from across a whole range of Industries uh and we’re into people who are good at what they do um they’re curious uh about uh stuff they’re not they don’t know about um they’re ambitious to develop and they’re authentic that’s who we like working with and uh I curate diverse teams uh of up to 11 12 per team uh so

00:02:22 they can make uh they can make decisions uh with wisdom and take action with wisdom so our whole gig is around diversity uh and complexity and our love of complexity and our love of people and um that’s what we do so uh and we apply that in lots of different ways now um uh and we have worked with individuals now for 16 years and uh and we’re starting to get good at it yeah nice so I guess yeah it’s it’s like small small group curated support for for yep it’s PE and and individuals in the business world or

00:03:05 or or wider World yep so it’s peer support uh from with people you wouldn’t normally mix with so we go out of our way with the curation of the teams to put people together that wouldn’t normally mix so the world is becoming more and more complex and hanging out with people like yourself uh was great in the past but not so much now and it is really important to be able to mix with people outside your real and a in a deep a meaningful way and to be challenged so we’re not into giving advice uh and it

00:03:44 used to be when I first set it up just for business people and now we work across you know we have doctors we have people from non-commercial backgrounds uh and we’ve found the more diversity that we can put together the better the team’s work and that is absolutely our our Jam uh we’re not into status we’re not into any of uh any of that stuff um and we like you know the thing is that we’ve learned being good at what you do being successful is really hard and people forget that is really hard just checking to there’s

00:04:23 some background noise in the background can you are you picking that up no okay good so being successful is really hard we know that failure is hard but success is hard too because it puts you in places where you can feel lonely where you can feel isolated uh and you’re having to deal with new stuff all the time uh and as you go up the chain the flow of information coming back to you can stop so the feedback loop will stop as people um uh especially in a position of leadership uh that can get really really

00:05:01 lonely so that’s part of our Jam is to make sure that information uh uh comes through and the thing that drives me my why is for people to get clean information or clean data about their life uh and that came from a a childhood thing um uh that really uh affected me and my family and that was uh to do with uh one of New Zealand uh uh biggest um murders uh that’s that’s the country’s been through called The Crew murders which then became the arur Alan Thomas case so my first cousin Harvey crew and his wife

00:05:43 were murdered um yes that was um that was really uh traumatic but nowhere near as traumatic as the years that followed that where my family could not get good information because of the corruption in the police system uh the Frailty of the legal system and all of that mixed together and so we had miscarriages of Justice um we had retrial after retrial we had films and books because it was great void of misinformation that the misinformation caused and that that’s the thing that really uh drives me and

00:06:24 it was great Michael Philpot um helped me discover that uh 18 months ago um and that’s the thing that drives me and I get great pleasure when people get really clean information and that’s what our diverse teams are there for is to be able to take action with wisdom and that wisdom is created using this filter of diversity uh and when people get that wonderful clean data and able to step forward in the world makes a huge difference people was lives and we’re very proud of that that’s yeah so true

00:07:04 so cool um and and like I didn’t know about that backstory with you because obviously that’s that’s a fairly new discovery for yourself um yeah so so how old were you when all that was happening just I was I was 10 years old it was a Tuesday evening when the call came through um to find that the um uh my uh second cousin their daughter was found on the cot she was 18 months old shelle and uh and the house was covered in blood and the parents were missing wow um and that started um and still is to

00:07:39 this day the New Zealand’s biggest murder case and and remains unsolved uh and um yeah that that look it was it was a really traumatic time but as I say the thing that really affected my family the most was the misinformation was the so many biased um players in there and um you know New Zealand is not a corrupt country uh but back then we were pretty much a police state you know police had huge amount of control uh this is 1970 so look it’s it’s uh it’s something that Michael helped me figure out why I

00:08:25 have this need uh and it took you know it took a we while and soon as it dropped um it it gave me a huge amount of clarity for myself as well um and um and that’s the thing I strive for Tim is that the the and I didn’t know what was burning I knew something was burning there that kept me going but that’s the thing that burns in me uh that I love the opportunity for people to get that and companies not just individuals but for people to get that clean information and go ah okay that’s what’s going on

00:09:03 and there’s we’ve got processes around that um our teams come together two three four times a year um they all choose different different ways of doing that and getting that unbiased feedback from people who are not invested in your life um I’m really interested in biases uh and biases show up everywhere and sometimes we’re aware of it and sometimes we’re not but when the biases are neutralized through a diverse team it’s amazing what you get what you hear sometimes for the first time yeah and so then people can take the action

00:09:45 to the next stage with the fog clearing and you know that’s my jam that’s the thing that that fills my heart super cool um it reminds me uh obviously being a passionate Welshman one of my favorite artists is the Stereophonics and they have there’s a lyric in one of their songs it’s the not knowing that kills you um and it’s it’s so true you know um I guess there’s an element like we we need uh you know we we want curiosity we want sometimes like oh you know I’m trying to think of the right word but

00:10:16 like a surprise I’m gonna give you a nice surprise on the weekend that kind of um oh there’s a word that that describes that that I can’t think of right now but that that kind of like um positive uh you know curiosity or or this this is you know there’s some really cool experience that might be happening to me but not knowing you know it’s it’s almost like you know in any world whether it’s the sales world or asking someone out on a date and they haven’t got back to you and it’s been a week and you’re imagining now all the

00:10:42 scenarios in your head as to what you’ve done wrong like it’s the not knowing that kills you and and I think yeah clearly it’s it’s the same you know my business is not a huge mega Corporation but you know trying to make quick decisions in a company when you don’t have all the knowledge and you’re having to second guess and you you know it has a a mental real estate tax that is massive um particularly you know the more personal the the the challenge but it’s I think it’s it be do you have any data around you know what what what what

00:11:13 percentage of people’s average brain space is taken up by not knowing that is therefore stalling them being able to to move on in any part of their life I don’t know that would be an interesting I don’t know whether anyone’s done that research but I would imagine the cost physically emotionally alone is phenomenal without even getting into Financial costs in a in a business uh business world yeah that’s great question I’ve never had that question before Tom and I’m going to uh I’ve made a note I’m going to go

00:11:43 and have a look at that because um it’s exhausting 100% And you know and that’s what happened that’s what happened to my family was that you know the the subsequent years you know it was in the news every week for seven years and that was in the news you know for that period of time because it was just like lighting petrol over and over and over again because it was um the public went satisfied nobody was satisfied with the Pres interestingly there was a book written last year uh and I’m meeting

00:12:17 with the authors uh soon uh and it’s the first book that’s been written that didn’t have a bias that didn’t have an ex to grind so they just to them a professor and and a journalist and they it’s just called the creers and they these two went on and just have done a stunning job at compiling the whole thing and it gave me a huge amount of um uh satisfaction reading it I learned I learned a hand a handful of things um uh but it was just a beautiful job of actually uh um cating everything without

00:12:52 the bias here because all the other books were from journalists and so that had a theory about the murder and they wrote the book to prove their Theory where this book didn’t it just got the data down and I’ve bought half a dozen copies for it and gave them to my kids and and different family members and go you know this is your fua papa this is this is uh you know in your DNA and um this is the best uh account of what happened to our family um you know and look I I’ll be forever grateful for Michael um giving me

00:13:30 that Clarity 18 months ago uh you know the guy’s a wizard um and uh and then from there I’ve noticed the wonderful joy that I get when people go ah ah okay and can trust the information coming through and you know it’s it’s Cur curiosity is something that when I started collective intelligence I didn’t know much about curiosity and I know a little bit more now uh the thing with curiosity be truly curious you’ve also got to be brave because if you’re truly curious you’re going to discover stuff you don’t

00:14:15 like and when you discover the stuff you don’t like what do you do then and a lot of people will pull back at that point uh or they’ll discredit the stuff so you’ve actually curiosity is a word that’s bound banded around a lot and there’s lots of different types of curiosity but being openly curious and then being brave enough when you discover a piece of information that might be really uncomfortable of having The Bravery to keep on asking questions and stepping forward um that is that is true

00:14:53 curiosity and you know our teams when they come together they do they’re not there to give each other advice um you know we’re going to have farmers in a team and we’ll have friends at Pathologists in the team and we’ll have you know um uh Crown prosecutors and and a whole range of different you know it people so we put people together who don’t but they giving advice is a complete waste of time but challenging people and asking questions just like the question you asked me before that it’s never been

00:15:29 asked me before to me I’m going huh okay I’m going to go and investigate that so asking questions that are concise and accurate as a real art and then remembering to shut up when you asked the question um because I get frustrated when people ask a wonderful question there’s a pause as somebody thinks and then they just go and fill it with chunk right the person’s ask the question and and too eager to get there and they they they miss the point of the pause the pause is reflection and sometimes that reflection

00:16:12 can take you know 10 20 seconds and that’s a good sign and through that point is to actually be very very quiet um and I’ve often seen people ask a really good question and and then the person’s reflecting and then they go and fill up with junk and the great question disappears it’s big frustration yeah LS in particular really bad for that um but you know from my Decades of sales and sales training um typically women make for better salespeople because they have more Natural Curiosity they’re more

00:16:51 empathetic and they’re better listeners and it’s really really common that guys will go so hav how are you going brilliant open question um did you have a great weekend close question really and then you don’t get an immediate answer and they’re St into oh yeah because I had a great weekend did you see the rugby and all of a sudden it’s it’s closed and most guys are okay with that because they’re not used to that I just making a noise to him yeah right and the other thing is you know how you doing to him if you’re

00:17:22 not actually interested in the answer don’t ask it because you know m and all that sort of stuff the answer might be you know what I’m not great and you need to be ready for that response and have time available to respond to that otherwise your intention of going you know how you doing you’re actually on [ __ ] okay so let’s talk about the rugby yeah yeah pour some more more fuel yeah on onto the person’s fire yeah yeah so you know all all those all those social scores but um anyway long worded bloody answer to that’s what I do

00:18:06 yeah good man that’s all good um I think the Curiosity thing I’m I’m really curious about haha um because we know that it killed the cat um which is maybe you know it’s when you look at the Modern parlons of when you hear the word curiosity that’s the first thing I think of curiosity killed the cat so is is the um you know cultural norm don’t be curious um and when you put it on a more broader evolutionary scale you know curiosity can could can be or could be potentially a very dangerous thing because if we were the first um

00:18:37 humanoids and we go to the edge of a thing that it’s a cliff but we don’t know it’s a cliff and we don’t know what happens when you step off the edge of a cliff the one of us who’s more Curious is going to go well it will probably just be the same as this other stuff we’re walking on you walk off the edge of the cliff and you fall to your doom um so you can see how in some respects um both physically and mentally you know in terms of what you were saying like being willing to go on that journey of

00:19:00 of curiosity it it is perhaps a dangerous well it is possibly a very dangerous thing but um on the picture behind me on my wall here which I know har can’t see because he can’t see my video but I’ve got a picture here of it’s called the Rebus which is an ancient alchemical model and the idea that there is a um the symbol for mercury which is a gold um orb with wings so things that are Mercurial are fleeting and hard to capture and that is guarded by the dragon of chaos and for you to defeat the dragon of chaos you

00:19:28 have to become at one with yourself so which means going back through all the painful uh you know things from your from your life things that have happened in your life to try and understand who I am and whether I can combine all those parts of me the sh the shadow Parts the darker parts of you with the the lighter parts of you to to create this unified version of yourself that is then indivisible against the dragon which can slay the dragon which can then help you it’s kind of the journey that you’ve

00:19:54 been on and I think the reason why most people don’t do that is exactly what you said because you scratch it or you pull the the thread on the jumper and all of a sudden you’re standing there naked and you’re like I don’t like being naked and I I want to go back to having my sweater on because that was comfortable so yeah just how do we how do we help get more people more Curious I guess is a longwinded way of getting to that I think you know the people are fascinating and I that’s one and I I I

00:20:24 encourage people to be fascinated about themselves and that the greatest mystery lies within ourselves and and but it’s it’s a journey you need to take go slowly and delicately and continuously and trying to work yourself out because we are all you know we’re all cocked up T and uh in one way or another and you know we’ve worked with over a thousand very successful people and not one of them’s had their [ __ ] together it just does not exist and um it’s something that you know I think it’s a really important thing to

00:21:11 teach younger people coming through in the professional world don’t look at anybody and think they’ve got their [ __ ] together because it’s a facade and you know kids know that I remember listening to Obama you know when he was at the the height of his itical career but his daughters knew that he didn’t have a [ __ ] together and they just treated him like that uh and so I think you know trying to understand yourself um is really important and you know if I touch back on the on the um crew matters is that I changed

00:21:53 when I was about 19 years old 19 20 years old and this was 9 10 years after the the homicide and they the government let Arthur Al and Thomas out of jail and paid him uh $970,000 1979 or 1980 a lot of money then huge amount of money paid him compensation now that changed me because I then became very suspicious disrespectful of uh the system um because I thought this has just been a big game to the to the officials that’s how I responded at that age and you know I went off to lincol the next year and caused

00:22:47 Havoc um because I would just attack the system whenever I thought the system was playing a game or the system wasn’t um genuine I would just create heaven and you I was asked to leave after about four or five months and luckily we came to an agreement that I could stay to the end of the year but I had to go at the end of the year um and you know that fighting the system was alive and well of me for a long time and it’s still there but I’ve I’ve you know um learned to modify that but it took a long time

00:23:28 to work out what had happened and you know through counseling and so forth because um and I can pinpoint the actual where I was when the news came on the radio that Arthur Thomas been LED out of Joe uh and all I felt at the time was just huge disturbance I don’t know was but you know and then how it manifested um and you know I’m very lucky ter that I’m not a violent person um otherwise I’d be in jail now or would have been you know had some uh prosecutions um and said I just use humor and um that was my

00:24:07 way of coping with with it and sometimes that humor was very black um and it’s taken a long time for me to work that out um and you know we’ve all got those things we’ve all got those things to work out uh and you know that that depiction that you talk about the dragon of chaos you know that’s as I said we’ve never worked with anybody that’s got their ship together it’s just not a thing yeah totally agree um I me because I think we’ve had some good chats about purpose over the years and and that’s the thing that I’m like I

00:24:43 like I love the bacop stuff but I’m I’m I think I’m more passionate and interested in the purpose stuff and the human transformation stuff to be completely honest and um yeah why we are who we are uh all the stuff you just talked about you know the um the old Maxim you know written on the the wall of the temple at Deli know thyself you know we we we’ve known this stuff for thousands of years we’ve never had and I think this is you know really tiing with what you’re all about we we’ve never had access to so much

00:25:12 information yet we are you know we’re drowning in information but we’re starved of knowledge and wisdom and insight and what do I do with that and is it and particularly in this AI world of okay well is that actually true you know is that actually that person saying that thing um you who wrote that article um I haven’t got time to go and fact check that and work out whether that is true or not so I think I think there’s increasingly more opacity um and confusion and grayness um around us and if you don’t have that Baseline of

00:25:42 actually knowing even who you are you are just completely you know you’re you’re on a sinking raft in a swamp um with in the Mist you’re just going to be going around in a circle and with no idea and I think spending the time to get to know yourself there’s a couple of tools that we”ve got if anyone interested on on exploring any of this stuff one of the cool things that I did on the beginning of my journey was actually um to undertake a thing called PR’s questionnaire I don’t know if you’ve heard of that so it’s quite often

00:26:08 used by writers of fiction to create a character so back in the day in the late 1800s when we didn’t have [ __ ] book and Tic Tac whatever they’re called um we would go to a coffee shop and we would write a questionnaire through the week we’ give it to our mates say hey go and fill the questionnaire in and then bring it back next week when we meet up for coffee and um yeah prous questionnaire is I think it’s 35 questions and it’s things like you know what traits do you most admiring a man what traits do you most admiring a woman um

00:26:33 what would be your motto um which historical character would you like to have dinner with um how would you like to die um what you know what would be your biggest achievement it’s all that kind of stuff that if you just sit down for a minute and go and for me that was a really instrumental moment to go actually who am I like I’ve done all these psychometric tests working for all these big corporate companies I I know you know what my personality type is but actually what are my values what do I

00:26:54 what do I how do I see the world what do I actually yeah how do I it’s almost like that next layer and I think for me I think we’re quite similar in that in that I have a real deep sense of curiosity and that always used to get me in trouble in large companies because i’ say well you’ve got your values on the wall here but I’ve just seen you just launch this thing and that’s that’s completely out of Li with our value so either I’m really dumb or there’s a massive elephant in this room here and you know chle sniger sniger yeah we’ll

00:27:19 just get rid of him you know he’s not going to last long in this company he’s a trouble maker um and I think that’s possibly why I didn’t get into the army which was my big that was my kind of traumatic mod which we talked about on your podcast like not getting into the organization that I most revered and thought you know all my mates were getting into and it’s like yeah you but I look back and go I’m just I I would have been a troublemaker I would have been a Rabel Rouser I would have gone yeah but actually sir you you’ve said

00:27:41 that last week and this week you’re now saying this and I can’t understand my daughter’s like that unfortunately or fortunately she she sees you know a real sense of fairness and Justice if she sees something going on at school she’ll say but hang on a minute that’s not what you said and I just want to know where the boundaries are um and so that you know that’s that’s that’s something she’s got to learn to live with yeah you know it’s not it’s not it’s just something she’s got to learn to live with and to channel

00:28:09 that in a way that you know doesn’t destroy life 100% And we and I think I’m more aware of all of this stuff than you know my parents just had no idea about any of this stuff um and I think I’m just grateful that I’ve I went through a pretty heavy purpose Journey myself to understand to at least some level how all of this stuff and how all the things we say to her will um will influence you know her life um so yeah um there’s a there’s a piece there about knowing yourself and I think this is where we have got so much to learn from

00:28:43 not just Mari but other other indigenous um cultures and it’s not just about learning about yourself but it’s also you know who came before and and that’s something think that um something that’s in my DNA and that I didn’t realize how significant it was until maybe 10 years ago and that was um so I grew up behind the Tui Brewery and mananga that some people know with the tower and my family started that Brewery uh in 1903 and my great-grandfather bought that Brewery out of receiver ship and back then it

00:29:29 was there were a dozen breweries in the area cuz they had lovely spring water and uh the wre rapper that was just south of there was dry and so these brewes sprung up to supply beer too down there and this was just one of those um little Brewers and it was literally just a shed and anyway that was in 1903 and I went Gang Busters um and the other 12 breweries went by the wayside and this one stayed uh he had two sons uh my great-grandfather and they went off to World War I and both died within 6

00:30:02 months um in in the um gilp and then the battle of the song and uh that you know broke his heart uh and then the um depression came and at that time uh so his daughter my grandmother uh and her husband um they were planning to build this Tower to store uh the Grain and the recession hit and Fletchers had designed the Tower and the depression came and everything was stopped and my grandfather and great-grandfather had the money because the business had been very successful for some time uh say sometime maybe 10

00:30:56 years um they decided to carry on and build the Tower using local labor and it took them about four years to build using local label through the depression and there was over 100 people employed uh to build that now all the stories that c told of the T Brewer and we did make great beer back then uh and we actually got the license bre Guinness and done some very cool stuff but the thing I’m most proud of is that those those two men decided to go ahead and build that to now they didn’t use it for

00:31:33 eight years because there was no need because economy was was um uh was still rebuilding after the Depression and so and what what’s interesting is that that story doesn’t get told uh and that is the thing I’m most proud of around that whole story of of to Bear instead we tell all these [ __ ] junk Stories the year right and all the slogans but the real story the depth of that story is far more interesting but nobody’s brave enough to tell it and um and that something that is um yeah such in My DNA that I’m immensely

00:32:15 proud of that they went ahead and did that that’s super cool yeah it feels I mean that the modern world you know we we battle or bring bring my daughter into conversation again like we we’re battling with her on a weekly basis I want to be on Snapchat and Tik Tok like no it’s it’s not it’s not good for you you know you’re you’re 11 years old almost 12 no you know and we’re one of the few parents who are saying no all the others seem to just capitulated but the modern world of insta Tik Tok blah

00:32:47 blah blah it’s all superficial it’s quick there’s no depth to it and I feel like part of what’s going going on in the world is this is this lack depth you know we we’ collectively we see you know the Kardashians are one of the most well-known groups of humans and one of the most high net worth groups of humans and really like what have they added to humanity versus you know there’s probably a million other people just like your family who are doing something really inspiring and impactful you know

00:33:17 that’s changing the path of the life I mean we we all know that there’s billions of people or hundreds of people just in New Zealand who are doing some really cool stuff many of them clients of ours who are doing some really really cool stuff who just won’t get the air time because you can’t put it into a two second reel on Tik Tok that kids are going to give it a like or whatever they do on Tik Tok never been on Tik Tok not interested in it um and I guess yeah how do how do we get more people because

00:33:41 instinctively like you say the deeper story will actually resonate but it’s it’s getting people to the position where they can have the time to connect to that deeper story I blame the marketing people all the bloody crayon eers it’s their yeah look to my I I a slight deviation Kate and I um my wife and I were on the river sign is I never the river goes through Paris is it sign I think yeah never get that right um we were on a little barge having dinner um one night on there and doing the tourist

00:34:18 thing and going along and there was a young couple sitting table away and um very attractive young couple um lovely olive skin and and and what and they were sitting there and um they were you know beautifully dressed and presented and so forth and I’m saying that cuz we weren’t and they were sitting there not conversing they didn’t know had it talk to each other there was no conversation going on and I’m thinking it’s interesting but every half an hour when we went past some thing in the background you know the Statue of

00:34:56 Liberties and Paris and you know they would Shuffle around and do this amazing post you know and obviously put it on some platform Instagram Tik Tok whatever it was and I thought but the reality is you have asses you don’t even know how to talk to each other you know the miracle of sitting across the table of of being able to converse with somebody you can’t do that but you can pretend to be having this wonderful time on this and I felt like going over and I was talking to cage she said no leave them

00:35:32 alone you know don’t don’t piss them cuz I felt like going over and goes guys why don’t you just you know this is all [ __ ] you know just talk to each other uh and but that’s not cool you know and so many of the impactful things to him are very very modest uh and are not newsworthy good news doesn’t sell uh uh and you know um the Kardashians for some reason they s and that’s what we are that’s what we you know we were stuck with and I feel you know I feel sorry for the younger generation I’ve got three Muna coming

00:36:14 through and I think wow what are the challenges they’re going to cope have to deal with when the oldest is maybe three or four now you know they’re going to deal with in 10 years time or less and to deal with this facade that everybody else has got this amazing perfect life um and I haven’t and you know it’s it’s it’s tough you know I didn’t I didn’t have to deal with that as a kid um it is a different world for sure yeah yeah and we’ve got a comment in the uh chat from Beck Smith you know beex story I thought you two would

00:36:58 have to have known each other um so her comment was she she loved perhaps question it changed her life changed mine too um so we’ll make sure we get a copy of that or a link to that somewhere in the show notes and in the community but she’s also got a question for us um so coming back to the um colletive intelligence piece um the dword diversity um that can get a few reactions from people um we have certainly had a couple of people who we’ve done some bot work with one one company who we got to the questions on

00:37:30 diversity and he literally said this shit’s too woke I’m I’m done I’m not interested in P beop um we have a couple of other clients who maybe go this doesn’t go far enough um so the I I feel and for me personally I do feel that the the diversity question is a loaded question um and so Beck’s question is how do you assess the diversity when you are mapping your teams so I.E is it skills creat ethnicity gender background and diversity of thought and you know is there like a hierarchy of diversity that

00:38:03 you would use in team formation and I’m I’m also curious because I just think the the diversity currently is mainly around race and gender um and that’s it and then you kind of go well actually theoretically if you are tall and good-look you’re more likely to be a CEO than if you’re short and not good-looking so should we also be factoring in you know rate this person out of 10 or how attractive 100 people think they are and you know if you’re under six foot um we need more people who are under six foot to be CEOs I just

00:38:34 kind of think the diversity thing can end up becoming yeah a real thing so yes how do you what what has diversity mean to you at collective intelligence or for you as have and how do you Wrangle that in your teams yeah um part of it’s an art form part of its metrics diversity is very forgiving thing so you don’t have to get it right uh and and there was a great you know way of of of evening it out so for us this is a a rough metric making sure there’s no conflict of interest in the room um making sure that you’ve got a gender

00:39:16 mix that’s simple making sure you’ve got an age range so our youngest memb has been 19 our oldest has been 73 so you don’t want everybody the same age um ideally uh having Mari Pacifica um or other ethnic backgrounds in there and you know I’m very proud that that we have we are nowhere near as diverse in that respect uh culturally than I would like um there’s stuff you can’t see uh and so um you know transgender gay community all of that is really important um but I think the most important thing with

00:39:59 diversity is in the culture that you got to allow it to turn up so you can do all the curation you want but if you don’t have a culture which allows for people to be able to speak up and that you take away the status in the room uh and to try and leave the ego at the door so the things that get in the way of of of diversity working it’s magic are state us bias ego comments like woke I mean Tim what the [ __ ] does that mean right and I I just I hear that and I just go what is it it’s it’s so misused it’s

00:40:47 nonsense and I use the FW on purpose there because I have been accused of being woke and I and I just just I come back with that and and I really uh I think it’s an absolute um labeling [ __ ] cop out of going I’m not up for the conversation it’s too comfortable so I’m going to call you woke and um you know and its origin of the word is totally unrelated to how it’s being used now it’s just being a a a a stupid use of the term so so I think a big big for me it’s about creating the culture creating the

00:41:34 culture where people can have a say because there’s you can build diverse teams but keep the status there and keep the the hierarchy there it doesn’t work so culture I think is it’s a great question Becks it’s a I think the I think the culture is um actually more more important than the diversity manyways nice yeah it just it does just feel yeah I don’t know it’s it’s an area that is almost like right for abuse almost um and yeah when there’s it’s yeah it’s it’s almost like the purpose conversation it’s hard to Define there’s

00:42:20 no clear answers we’ve you know we’ve probably got some lessons from history that we haven’t really connected to and um it’s it’s a hard thing so we’ll we’ll just look for an easy answer to to solve it um whereas and and and ter if we if we don’t you know it’s it’s essential and it’s not you know it’s it’s essential to build to build differently to what we’ve had uh it’s not perfect it doesn’t you know but but it’s it’s making sure no I need to add this as well is that it needs make sure that it’s not

00:42:58 tokenistic and that people are not allowed a seat at the board or whatever just to fill a quter and so we don’t do that you know we are looking for people that have got those poor attributes uh and because we know that’s really important right so being competent being curious being authentic being ambitious to develop those are the four things we’re looking for and it doesn’t matter your age gender whatever you need to express those so that is our those are the people that we are looking for and and then you

00:43:34 create the culture and the adversity and it’s it’s it’s uh in the number of times we’ve seen something out of LIF field come from somebody that’s totally unrelated and here’s one of my favorite examples of that which expresses the beauty of diversity we had a what we call a host day when somebody hosts the team they come to their and they examined their business or their position or whatever and this chap on the team was saying this entrepreneur that he worked 80 hours a week and you know it was s bit

00:44:09 of Pride it was you know hard worker and there were some other entrepreneurs in the team and they were just like well he’s some in and then there was a thae woman in the in the uh on the group and she came from a different profession all together came from Professional Services then she looked at him with this frown on his face and said but I thought you were good at this and the bubble was best because to hear if you were good at this you wouldn’t be working 8 hours a week yeah you’d have it nailed in 20 and

00:44:50 be yeah on the beach whatever family yeah where the under entrepreneurs were you know was a badge of honor hustle culture let’s go and so you know that’s a very simple example of just somebody just going that doesn’t make sense to me and so we need once again to have that culture and I was facilitating that team and I just it was just the most beautiful moment my Dr and and this guy was just you know the room was quiet for about 30 seconds which is you know and he was going that’s a good point anyway some changes happened after

00:45:36 that but he had a paradigm shift in that moment in that moment there was a paradigm shift nice yeah I think and I think that’s the heart of what you’re talking about is is getting that clarity through being challenged um because if if you’re surrounded by a bunch of other entrepreneurs in some kind of startup accelerator and it’s all yeah yeah you know let’s go and watch Gary ve and yeah Crush some cans of V or red buard just let’s just keep crushing keep crushing then yeah you know we are tribal people

00:46:06 and we we you know we all dress the same we start thinking the same yeah so yeah that value of that external um yeah and and ter you know one of the things that people don’t realize that as we go through our Provisions we start mixing with people like ourselves without even knowing it we start surrounding ourselves with people who think like us without even knowing it and we get really comfortable with that and you know I’ve got old school friends who found find it very uncomfortable to be with me at

00:46:41 times because you know I’ll talk about the single use plastic bottles uh and you know different environmental things things I care very deeply about and it’s just like would he just shut up you know but it’s just uh okay no this is this is not good enough guys you know we can do better than this um so you know it is inadvertently as we progress throughout you know we often end up not of us often end up with people who think like us and so you know one of the things with building the team is you need an element

00:47:18 of comfort and you need an element of discomfort you’ve got to have those in Balance you don’t want to discomfort all the time that doesn’t work and you don’t want Comfort all the time it doesn’t work so there’s got to be a balance between the two and if it’s comfortable all the time uh there’s some stuff to sort out you know and and whether it’s diversity or whatever but it’s you know you need to have those moments where you have that annoying person who asks a really difficult question you know that’s a good sign and

00:47:56 when we need to we need we’ve got to we know more about sport we know more about Sport and sports teams than we do about Commerce and business I and we care more about sport than Commerce and business you know and You’ never put together that’s why I love rugby you’d never put a team of rugby rugby players together who are all 6′ eight and 120 kers yeah yeah you’d lose yeah you need that specialization in the different yeah and you need the books yeah and so uh and there’s no position that you go let’s

00:48:26 just have all them there’s no position that you’d have and I’d imagine it’s the same with with football or soccer I don’t know much about that but automatic it’s the same and so you know you’ve got to have that you’ve got to have that range so but we don’t my concern is in Commerce we don’t fully understand that yet it’s not baked into our DNA because it’s been so dominated by older white men there’s a again it looks back to me for like the the purpose work and one of the things we get people to do when we

00:48:59 go through purpose coaching with them is is to go on an empathy walk and basically you need to go and find someone who in your broader sort of group of connections is the person who you have the least in common with on the face of it and go for a walk with that person and just ask questions about their life and what’s interesting is you typically find actually there’s so much we have in common um we’re all just struggling we’re not perfect none of us know how to parent none of us know how to run our businesses all that kind of

00:49:26 stuff but you will also find that oh I had never thought about it in that way before because everyone just sees everything in a different in a different lens so maybe that’s a challenge we could set to people who are listening in is maybe go and find someone um and just go and have a coffee with them or a cup of tea with them and just make a connection and then maybe see if you can bring them in as some sort of mentor or connector you know at a basic level that you can just go hey look this is this is

00:49:52 how I see stuff how do you see it and and just get get that you know for the for the cost of a cup of tea or a lunch once a month with someone just to bring you a different perspective on your life or obviously come and join a collective intelligence group but if you’re just looking to test it and test it and give it a go I think it’s the you know it’s the whole yin yang you know it’s that again you know the dragon of chaos is like you need to be Meandering on this this line of the tension between the

00:50:18 dark and the light the left and the right the up and the down however you want to describe it and it’s like the the tension of or like two magnets you know that are kind of like pushing you in the middle you need that tension that force from both sides that lets you walk that path of the middle but with a slight Meander in it rather than I’m just going on that one line um but again we I think again like going back to onto the onto the purpose Journey we we we don’t want to be told that everything

00:50:44 we’ we’ve held to be true for all our life actually is not true I think that that is the existential shock that most people don’t want to handle or unpick and in in many ways I mean for me I I had a traumatic introduction into my journey of purpose from the earthquakes and the birth of my child or our child and I think you also have have had that more traumatic induced journey to purpose um significant event in your life that led you to to be and and behave in a certain way but I think the vast majority of people it’s that whole

00:51:16 Pink Floyd Comfortably Numb I’m just kind of happy with what I think is good and you know I don’t want to upset this apple cart because I kind of know that if I do go and you know tip the apple cart I’m G to find some maggots and some rotten apples and I’m gonna have to sift through that and see which ones are salvageable and I’m have to go and buy some new apples and that will sounds painful when I’ll just stay where I am um but I think that is the opportunity for business owners and humanity is to

00:51:43 go on that journey of Discovery and curiosity to work out actually who the [ __ ] are you and are you who you should be um and that is life’s great journey but so few people want to go do it because it’s hard let’s just go watch the Tik Tok instead yeah the the thing here here’s something that I I think is um we underestimate so when if I said to you you know somebody’s a great communicator what what comes to mind I said Somebody’s a great communicator what comes to your mind for me personally I would think uh the words

00:52:17 that come to mind are empathetic listener um sort of interpreter distiller um and um sort of ability to connect and and tell tell a story or or to to get information out but it has to be the full loop yep nice and pass the test and so lots of lots of people when I’ve asked that question to they talk about somebody who’s a very good communicate somebody who can who can tell yeah and you know somebody that I I learned a lot from anaki good who is the most wickedly good listener and he’s an active listener and

00:53:04 when you’re talking to him you’ll see him move and he’s engaging and his listening and it is so nice to have a conversation with him uh because you can see the act of listening and uh it is wonderful to be heard and that takes time and space once again going right back how you doing Tom I’m not so good oh that’s a bger but let’s talk about the rugby right so if you do if you’re not actually interested in the answer or interested in the response or have the time for the response don’t ask the question but I think you know being in

00:53:47 the space of and I was just saying this morning that you know I’m an extrovert I like talking but as I’ve got older I’ve actually enjoyed list listening more and more and developing that ability to listen and so you know that’s giving somebody some time to listen to them and SNY the words empathetic and so that’s those all nice words but the people that actually do it don’t use those words they just they just do it they just listen and I think being listened to is just a wonderful feeling and and then being understood is even

00:54:30 better uh and so I went to a conference in Christ Church a couple years ago and it was run by trading Enterprise I think Anna gona was one of the organizers and it was a for female entrepreneurs I think and so I I went on there because I much prefer to hang out with woman than I would me I find men generally boring as ship um went along to this thing and we had one of those things the room was full and Anna would blow the whistle and you go and find somebody to talk to and I spied across the room a young

00:55:06 Mary woman and she had um she had way out clothing and she had hair all different colors and I thought I want to go and talk to you and I made a beine for her to go and connect with her and you could see her you know one of the few men in the room and could see me and she was like God I don’t want to talk to him you know and and it was just like I was the last person she wanted to talk to and and I said look um Can can I talk to you for the next you know can I be with you for the next 3 minutes whatever

00:55:43 time and she went go and you can see her going okay so it’s not going to kill me for three minutes yeah okay I said what do you do you know I was just inrig what do you do and she told told me what she did it was just magn it was all about um streams and water and taking some ancient stuff and it was about cleaning the water in the streams and we just I just asked questions of here I was fascinating for three minutes and at the end of it she the whle went she I don’t know anything about you and I said sorry

00:56:15 but you know time’s up but it said you are doing a stunning job and I was just like you know it was a put it was just three minutes but it was what am I saying I think it’s really important to actually give a [ __ ] about other people and actually find out what they what’s their jam you know people are fascinating creatures yeah everybody got a story everybody’s got a story yeah and some stories you can see you know to me she had a flag up because of the way she was dressed and I was just like wow you’re not really

00:56:46 interesting um and and the story she told me was nothing like I thought it was going to be some some cool tick thing but it was was a nature-based uh remedy which was even Co but just wasn’t one I expecting so I think the Curiosity yeah goes back into the Curiosity which but I think it also ties back into the whole concept of diversity because it’s like you know don’t judge a book by its cover um I I think you know oh you’re just an old white dude it’s like well yeah but you don’t know my story you not you know get

00:57:18 to know me um you know I think it’s it’s an interesting one where if people go oh you know you’re a white guy youve got privilege it’s like well yeah my grandfather died as a coal miner in South Wales what what [ __ ] privilege did he have you know he died early from lung disease because he was digging in the ground all day long um you know my dad was lucky he was smart he got to go to university probably one of the first kids from his small town in South Wales to get to University I came to New

00:57:44 Zealand with a backpack I I’ve started my you know yeah I’ve had I’ve had a good start in life I went to a good school but like you don’t know I think again it fits back into that ancestry story that you’re talking about like get it’s there’s lots of Loops it back to the purpose world like what is your backstory like where where are you from like do you even know like most people might have an idea if they’re Grandparents were life I’ve got some idea I think Granddad used to do this but but because when I did that Journey

00:58:08 for myself it was really interesting so I sold medical devices for about 10 years well I had a great uncle I think on my mom’s side Who Sold medical medical devices in Bermuda in like the early it’s like well I I didn’t know anyone it didn’t even know that was a job before I fell into that industry and then you find out you had a relative who used to do it like [ __ ] hell well that makes some sense and then on my dad’s side one of his relatives was a was an ambulance driver is you go oh well is it any coincidence that I’ve

00:58:35 fallen into the world of hospitals and medical devices when it turns back like not just like maybe two or three generations ago they were doing that so yeah so many moments you can get from just digging digging into stuff yeah um yeah beex has got a follow-up question on the on the diversity thing she says so she’s interested ining how are decisions made in these teams and where does accountabil ility set in terms like if there’s no diversity hierarchy or there’s no you know you set above this and well you know your opinions worth

00:59:02 more yes how how does that work yep so the only push back I’d have on that beex is I don’t like the word decision decision means to kill off right anyway I’m not wanting to be too wanky about that um I’m I much prefer the the the term Choice um you know what generally it’s just arrived at yes there was accountability to the team to do something um we’re not there to give advice it’s there for people to sort their own stuff out and insight is far more sticky you know Tim you should do that that goes in skin deep and then

00:59:41 pings off and all sorts of stuff there’s no commitment to it but if you have the Insight through a series of questions and so for and work it out yourself that’s sticky inside is a buggy you can’t get rid of it it’s always there so um the thing with the teams backs it’s it’s about coming to coming to A A place where the next thing can happen God I hope I’m me this the right way but it’s it’s um it’s sort of magic and it’s sort of um you know the facilitators will write down where people have got to and look at what are

01:00:16 the next steps uh and people can change your minds too you know it’s it’s it’s not set in stone so their minds sorry people can change their minds how does that work um it’s a thing it’s a thing oh who’ to think it um yeah so how are decisions made in these teams and where does accountability lie I think you I think you like it sits with the person I guess ultimately doesn’t it yeah so the accountability you know we the the teams operate group pressure is a thing you know it’s a thing and um whether you

01:00:50 like it or not and and the best I’ve ever known for this was Muhammad Ali when You’ put something out there I’m going to do this I’m going to do that you tell everybody and so hey Presto it was that would sit there with him and it was a great motivator for him so I think the decisions uh the choices people can make you know it needs to be at the end of the day the individuals have still got to have the autonomy to do what’s right for them we’re not under group think we’re not under group pressure uh but it’s

01:01:31 amazing one of our members said a few years ago she said when I’m in a meeting and something’s getting really difficult she said I can feel my team on my shoulder going say the thing say the thing that’s really uncomfortable and the teams that one of the magic with the teams is that you’ve got this group of cheer leaders behind you who are not in your world who are from outside your world they you know they are there just for you and they go with you when you’re not with them you know for three or four

01:02:08 months I’m on a team and I can feel that with me uh even when they’re not there and so um they give me The Bravery at times when I’m sitting there and I’m feeling scared and I can hear individuals in the team you know with that wisdom sitting back there going you know come on you can do this so I don’t feel as alone uh and yeah so it’s a very B it’s a very very convoluted answer and I think I’m thinking can I make it more concise than I’m not sure I can I think she says thanks for the reframe that’s

01:02:56 her reply so um yeah I Le like anything yeah you you can’t you can lead the horse of water you can give people ideas thoughts perspect perspectives But ultimately it’s down to the individual to to to kill the idea yeah I love I love that I love the was it atmology isn’t it the study of the meaning of words there’s a whole lot than that I think it’s super cool um the fact that we spell words and a spell is Magic I just think that’s like such a cool idea it’s the little things I’m easily amused as my wife would tell me um all

01:03:34 right so how did you get into collective intelligence um because obviously you started the business but what what were you doing before that to to so look I I was a I was a sheep and beef Farmer for 30 years before that uh and uh obviously really obvious link from ship B farmer to cating diverse groups of leaders it’s there uh and like it goes back to uh my childhood so growing up at mangon NOA we had uh a little country settlement I went to school of 50 and we had kids from the railway we had kids from the

01:04:09 pub from The Brewery from the dairy Factory from sheep and beef farms and dairy farms and none of those families mix they were often they all H their own social groups but you know a school of 50 so we the kids we all mix but we had parents of vastly different backgrounds and um uh so the diversity thing was there and luckily for me that with the brewery we had we had Brewers from Scotland and England and so forth and and that was pretty cool too so the diversity thing was was uh was there we had a strong Mari

01:04:45 Community um uh uh there as well uh so I went farming not because I went farming because I wanted to go farming um and uh there was lots of reasons for that it was fate um I actually wanted to be a professional tennis coach um and uh my second option was be become a landscape AR architect um and I went farming we don’t have time for that uh sounds like we should have time for that well look it was and and it was my father um uh had a very small farm behind the brewery and my father had very poor health he couldn’t go to World

01:05:29 War II cuz he was epileptic and um didn’t enjoy farming because of his health and and so he encouraged me to do anything but go farming uh and in the end I was influenced by a um a friend’s father um who was a very uh interesting Innovative farmer and I became intrigued with the innovation of farming and so I went farming uh because of him not because of my family and um uh I was always interested in other things I was always interested in things outside of farming and I had a brother-in-law who

01:06:06 was in the corporate world and I was always interested in things beyond the farm gate and I was interested in creating more value and got involved in in different Ventures none of them were successful but I learned a hell of a lot um along the way and um I learned a wonderful lesson of a um we had some cash for a while and uh the price of cashmere crashed and a small group of us got together and we bought all New Zealand’s cashmere for very little and we created a company which sold garments to the

01:06:38 inbound Japanese tourists and it was went Gang Busters and went from being private to an unlisted public company and was we we thought we were famous and then the Asian financial crisis came and P press of the Japanese kept on coming to New Zealand uh but they didn’t want to buy ridiculously expensive garments and then we found there was all sorts of seconds and wastage and all that sort of stuff and you know ultimately that failed uh and um that was just a stunning stunning stunning learning curve for me so I was

01:07:13 always interested in other things now uh at that time I was a director in my early 30s I became a director of three different companies um so I was very was very privileged to go into those course um I wasn’t a very good director uh because I was more interested in the key people than the bottom line and looking after the stakeholders uh and I became fascinated with the isolation factor of these CEOs and I because I think I was 32 I was fascinated to see that you know they’ come along to the board meetings

01:07:50 and they present the they present the the the figures and if the Figures were good everybody was happy but I was intrigued that they were not spending enough time with their kids their wives didn’t like them anymore and sometimes I were drinking too much and actually maybe to give a [ __ ] about that uh and so I thought as a farmer we had Farm discussion groups and farm discussion groups were and still are about technical um uh uh change and helping each other and and we had that mechanism and they work because Farmers don’t

01:08:29 compete with each other and I thought oh I wonder if I could set up a like a farmers Discussion Group without any farmers in it and put a bunch of CEOs and stuff in there and see if that would work and so I did and I um coed a bunch of about six or seven eight people uh to join this team and the team was called the Hornets and uh most nervous morning of my lifetime was the first meeting they came together and they coming from around the country and I’m in the toilet dry reaching because I hadn’t been able to

01:09:13 find a facilitator and the person that I wanted a facilitator said half the lobby wankers you’re a wanker you do it that was his motivational speech and so here I was in the bloody toilet dry reach and going I have no idea what I’m doing here and um they’d come from Christ Church in Orland and so they meeting the central um here in palon North and so I I just went into the room and thought that I can all I’m going to do is just you know tell them that I don’t know what I’m doing I’m just going to try and do my best and they seemed

01:09:52 okay with that uh and it was interesting because what my hunch was isolation was real loneliness was real their pressure that they couldn’t show anywhere else was real that they had to look good in front of their board and staff and go home and still look good um and and that when they came into this environment they could let they could over time they could talk about what was really going on and uh I facilitated that team for about seven or eight years and I came apart because I was too busy farming

01:10:33 then i’ got into some other stuff and but I had this s what would happen if I did did this properly and so um I parked that team and after 30 years of farming I had enough I this was before regenerative farming had come up um and I was very good at the old methodology of the control and so forth but just didn’t film a cup anymore so I had this thing I thought wonder if would happen if I could do this other thing and I was trying to put together two or three things collective intelligence was one on the side and

01:11:11 then there was this other thing to do with farming the farming thing I couldn’t get up and running because of red tape and stuff um and that was around leadership development of farmers so my frustration I’d got involved some corporate farming uh in the uh early 2000s and uh I was very frustrated that farming models was were getting more complicated the environmental thing was starting to show up Farms were getting bigger nobody was developing Farmers so you know and accountants and lawyers have got a standard if you want to be a

01:11:50 lawyer you need to have some qualification and same with an accountant you need to keep up to date Farmers don’t anybody can be a farmer and I thought this is an industry that looks after the land and water and food and you don’t need to be up to date with anything if you’ve got a pot of money anybody can be a farmer and so I tried to grow a professional standard for farming and I spent 18 months on that and in the end just went nuts with that because the powers of me were threatened by it and it didn’t really fit anywhere

01:12:31 so I gave that up and I put all my attention into collective intelligence which was then was just a bit of a sideline and so then I put all my attention to collective intelligence and you know I’m very grateful that the first thing didn’t work um that it failed because um ultimately I wouldn’t have had nearly as Rich a journey as I’ve had so starting Collective intelligence probably 16 years ago um back then diversity was different Industries but it was still mostly white men and a few white women and all in Commerce and I had a

01:13:09 few surprises along the way somebody had put forward a school principal to join a team and I thought school principal doesn’t fit here and somebody else put the same guy forward so went had a chat to him and he had a book in the book case called good to Great by Jim Collins mhm I said you ever read that thing and he goes pulled out and said this is my Bible I run the school office when okay let’s give you a go anyway he he turned the the the light on for me because he came in to a business environment with a

01:13:42 whole lot of skills that the entrepreneurs didn’t have he had way bigger staff he had a staff of 140 um and he just bought a whole wish Outlook and that was uh that was the turning point that was about three years in that was the turning point I just I’m missing something here and so then we open the gates to more and more and more more and now I don’t care what industry people are on I don’t care what level they’re at um because we’ve learned we’ve had people come in that have been professors CEOs and they’ been [ __ ] on

01:14:18 the team because they’re closed they know stuff they they there to give advice or they you know they’re very close where now we know when people are at any level as long as they got those four attributes um and being open to change and curious then it allowed us at that point to just increase and spread and spread and spread it’s also made our model slightly more difficult to understand because if I had said collective intelligence is a white man’s place to come and make more money be a lot easier to

01:14:57 Market yeah um and so our diversity and our success has made our value proposition more difficult to Define and we’re still working on that we haven’t nailed it um and it’s it’s been a continual frustration for me uh but as far as I know we are the only ecos system of its type uh in the world and there’s stuff similar to this but they don’t actively go out looking for difference and you know the only the only industry one of the only Industries we haven’t been able to work with other gangs and I

01:15:43 had to go um because I was really interested in the gangs but that ultimately didn’t work um maybe you need to get some collective intelligence patches so we can get some patches might be although that’s not not allowed currently into the current regime so I’m sure you’re a smart guy you’ll come with a work around yeah yeah having a p it’s biodegradable that wouldn’t be yeah but that’s that’s that’s the roundabout way of of no where we’ve got to 10 minutes um uh and and and the B Corp thing you know

01:16:20 one of our members Alex henon was on the board of B lab in moin uh I think he went on to beach chair and Alex uh said to me one day he said have you need to have a look at this B thing he said I think you what attrac Ministry said I think you really like the people involved in it it’s really cool and uh and when I met you was down at the social Enterprise World forum and that was the first time I’d met you and be Court was very very new at that point New Zealand and I thought we are special we would be able

01:16:58 to become a be easily and we didn’t was really hard but yeah so that was my introduction to be nice just couple of Reflections on on your journey I think it’s um it’s quite commonly called in the purpose world like the golden thread you know like what what are the key things that you used that you have done at a meta level that whether is a a commonality and it’s kind of it’s interesting that you went from farming which you know is about growing it’s about monitoring how ecosystems are working and working with

01:17:33 each other to create a result and then you’ve kind of you’re essentially almost farming human beings in that you’re creating a little ecosystem you’re watering it you’re you know testing all the all the ingredients that need to go into to make the group so I think it’s it’s always interesting to to reflect on that um I think a couple of other things it’s there’s been quite a few people we spoken to recently Perry Dale from uh untouched World in particular you know she just gave it a go she she was making

01:17:58 some um knitted uh Woolen clothing for her for one of her kids um and someone said that’s really good you should sell it and then she sort of just gave it a go and turns out now people are buying it all over the world I think so you’re you know just turning up and and and your motivational speaker um but I think the the other thing to that is you know the people in the room have no idea what you’re about what you’re about to deliver and I think that that’s the two things that stops Mo most people from

01:18:22 giving something a go is oh I don’t know and I there’s some inertia to doing it but if you just do it the person who’s buying your first iteration has no idea that you had 100 other iterations in your head that they could have seen if they like the one that they’ve seen they’re going to buy it you’re in business so yeah um and and the the other reflection which I think leads back into the bacock conversations you know you’re talking about all these high fluen CEOs in your first group who were you know just looking at the bottom line

01:18:47 what of the numbers but you know sort of to hell with the rest of it a question I like to poke CEOs with is so So currently your your big metric is chasing the financial number and and all costs you want to beat the one you had last year and if you’re a listed company you know you want to go up up in the rankings well if that’s so important can you tell me who was listed number three on the nzx in February 2014 no and possibly there’s possibly one really geeky Economist who will be able to go yes there’s always those

01:19:16 people who go yeah in the 1953 test the opening batsman was Smith and he was from the Chapel end it’s like yeah whatever like take know people at the equation no one knows no one cares so think about the bigger picture think about your life think about your legacy yeah all that kind of stuff and and who created the or motivated the student Army after the earthquakes yeah you yeah I can remember that yeah 100% you know you you remember you remember what people did and how they did it you won’t remember what they were Chas said yep

01:19:49 you know I remember he danced with Camila you know and all that stuff that’s cool um and the yeah so it’s it’s it’s an interesting thing Tim we often aspire to things that actually nobody gives a [ __ ] about at the end of the day back to the yeah yeah yeah and and uh you know I have got huge confidence or inspiration around the you know uh younger Generations who are not as motivated as my generation was my generation you know the more money you had the more status you had and um you know I think younger Generations are

01:20:37 starting to see through that now which is which is very good very good although based on my daughter’s attraction to Stanley Cups um and the hierarchy and pecking order that that has now in an old girl school there’s still some work to me yeah okay okay all right I got this free this isn’t a Stanley this is like a it’s just like a cup and um so I’m in the world of of twins particularly girls uh people might know that there’s this whole thing called dupes which is where basically you get a knockoff version of

01:21:09 some Cosmetics which are cheaper but they do just as good a job so I I call this my duple because it’s a knockoff of a Stanley so my daughter thinks that’s quite funny so yeah I’m down with the kids man that’s a that’s a good place to be um so just lingering on the beup journey for a little bit are you still good for time I’m still good for time I feel like we could keep going for ages it’s always good to to chat with you mate um so what challenges of of the beup you you sort of alluded to the fact that you thought

01:21:38 you were GNA just streak through it um but first time round it was maybe a bit harder than you thought what what was what was the The Challenge look um we were so arrogant we put an inurn on it and uh said we we go back going get credited and and I remember going to the social Enterprise World Forum thinking that we were sitting on 127 points uh in fact we were sitting on uh I think 71 points or something at the time you know in reality um and then you know obviously we failed and then the second time we

01:22:13 lined up and we we we went full noise and we failed again this time because we were in the wrong category uh and that was a BB thing I went oops um so we got through scraped through I think with 84 and A2 points um look what why was it so difficult was so difficult because it just forces you into all the dark crevices and it shows you you know the Aron is you’re sitting down to do it an exam and you’ve got all the answers they give you the answers and it’s still hurt and you’ve only got to you’ve only got

01:22:49 to get a 40% pass Mark and it’s still out and it just it where it’s so good is it just the questions and the thing just force you into all the areas uh and it shows you all the things you’re not doing and you’re just oh yeah no that’d be good and so we are we’ve recertified and we’re 90 something now and you know our Holy Grail we were not going is we’re still not measuring our purpose and we still haven’t mastered that and we have a measurement but it doesn’t hold any water to here and we that’s that’s a Holy Grail we would love

01:23:26 to to work on um but the thing you know the thing I love about V is it’s hard and it should be hard uh and um and so I feel a huge amount of um Pride being a ble uh and um and it’s aspirational because it it show you guides you you know what’s what’s possible and um and a number of our members now have become BS which I’m really proud of I remember Wendy Alexander from Ken uh has gone through and and um you know Fierce Matt was you know stunning Matt not surprising but I can see and encouraging

01:24:16 people to look at it uh and um had Aver ation this morning with a new with a new Venture and going so go and look at the B um framework to help you design where you want to go I worry about certification just go and use it as a template for design uh and the thing the other thing that I think is really important one it’s practical I like that and but the thing that it’s not is B Corps are not perfect and I cannot stressed that enough is that the B is means that you are on continual process to improve it

01:25:01 is not a destination and I get frustrated at times people say oh they’re a be C but us you know they’re still doing this or doing that you know that’s not 100% yeah like all of us all of us you know we don’t have a [ __ ] together nobody’s getting 200 points yeah I say that all the time there is no one has one be there is no oh oh 200 pointer done yeah and and doing good is black it’s not black and white it is absolutely gray at the best of times and even where you think you’re doing good you might not might not actually be

01:25:35 doing good and so yeah the people who throw rocks it’s like you know it’s that classic he who is in the arena um who was that that Rosevelt it’s like well what’s your be are you even are you even a be you know or are you just throwing rocks because blah blah blah it’s like yeah just whatever but it’s it’s it’s like don’t read the comments on stuff or don’t read the comments on on the newspaper on the digital you know online newsletter it’s just full of angry people throwing rocks on the internet

01:26:00 like CRA on obious be over here trying to make the world a better place so y yeah yep and it’s it’s it’s um it’s been very good for us Tom you know one of my favorite uh Memories We had a woman working for us um called Karen and we were renting an office at that point and she rang out our landlord and he said look I’ve just had a look in the ceiling and and we’re not insulated there’s no insulation in the in the ceiling and he said no it’s been not for for a while she goes yeah but we’re a big now and we

01:26:35 can’t stay here if it’s not insulated and he was like what and she goes well we’ve we’ve you know we aspire to be you know as green as possible and and use as little energy as possible and we don’t have insulation roof so it needs to be insulated if you want us to stay here it’s got to be insulated and she said you know we’re happy to pay half now she did that off her own you know uh and told us about it later and I thought boom this is working and we ended up with an insulated roof and that was just great that it

01:27:13 empowered her because she had she knew that we would um we would back her because of the right thing to do if we were to be caught would have we stuck our head up in the ceiling I’m not sure I’m not sure um and that’s the thing that it just raises your consciousness of a whole raft of things uh and you know there there was uh I can’t remember what it’s called Tim but there was we had a conflict last year with somebody in the team and they came to me and wanted you know had a major issue with something

01:27:52 something and I said that’s cool we have got a you’ll know the term of it I can’t remember off the top of the hat but I said okay we’ve got somebody who can call outside of the business and you can go and take the complaint there it’s a whistleblower thing whistleblower yeah I going to say and and you can go and take that to The Whistleblower and you can talk to them in confidence and you take it there and then that person will do from there and uh the whole thing got resolved really quickly but we had the mechanism in place

01:28:25 there’s no way I would have ever put a whistleblower um thing in the business never never yeah I think yeah 100% that’s what um most people see is it like you said shines the light on parts of the business that you didn’t know was a thing but now I know it’s a thing yeah that that makes sense let’s you know let’s do it does it make us and that’s why we call our our sort of coaching program to help people in the big journey be better you know don’t don’t be the best because no one’s going to be the best be better and use the Bop

01:28:55 framework to work out how you can be better and and go on that journey and bring the team on the journey with you and that thing doesn’t cost us anything uh but it was great to have it there and uh hopefully we don’t have to use it again but if we do then you know that’s cool um but having the mechanism there meant that it got dealt with really quickly uh and um it was to dealt withth it wasn’t glossed over and we had a proper process in place for that to happen and um yeah and that that’s that that stuff

01:29:33 when it turns up is really important yeah so in terms of the impact you’re making we talked about you know the beginning the the sort of the clarity the the trust the decision making but is there anything beyond that or anything deeper than that that you feel the you know in terms of impact because I think that’s key it’s a conversation we’re having a lot more with people right I say that there there’s a bunch of Bops out there that have snuck in with an 80 Point whatever and they’re a business

01:29:58 that’s maybe supplying a product or a service that’s not fundamentally making the world a better place but they are providing that product or service in a manner that is less [ __ ] than perhaps their competitors um but the difference between a a Bop without an impact business model and one with the impact business model meaning that you have got a dedicated social or environmental problem that you are trying to solve um so yeah do do you feel that that there’s a particular impact f that that collective intelligence has in that

01:30:25 regard uh I’m not going to answer that question um you Canever whichever question you want so the thing the thing that I think that you know there were some [ __ ] went down when the coffee company came through and I think they’ve changed that but now you know in each section you’ve got to have a minimum minimum criter that’s what it’s moving to yeah from maybe 2025 it’s looking like yeah yeah yeah so that’s a great response to that situation um and because of time to just just uh you know some people have grown older

01:31:02 literally um during this call he here I want to answer this question um and that where we’re applying our diverse teams to now is a number of different ways one we’re taking it out into the consultancy space with impact teams and we’ve Tri those and so it is using diverse teams to go and help a company uh and it’s a commercial model uh it is moving into the space of consultancy without consulting uh and is using inquisitors rather than people who know stuff uh and we’ve tried that and that’s going to be

01:31:38 rolled out soon um and then we’ve got another model uh that we’ve developed called Hatcher teams and we’ve run that three times one failed to have have worked really well and that’s going to be working within inside of found Foundation that we are um getting going um and I like triing stuff Tim and I my care with failure and triing on see and this this is where where’re wrapping around an individual with a really big um concept idea uh and the first one that we were successful with was uh to do with pediatric pallative care so in

01:32:16 New Zealand 280 families a year are affected um by children with cancer on different um ailments New Zealand doesn’t have a gold standard uh and this Doctor Who come back from Melbourne uh this was her specialty was pediatric paliative care she was introduced to me uh 80 months ago two years ago and we wrapped a diverse team around her to bring this gold standard to fruition and we’ve done that and it’s been trial now in witon W oteki and uh uh and this uh will just make a huge difference to and it’s cost

01:32:58 effective we now just get the minister of Health to uh or whatever it’s going to be called toat or Ministry of Health to see the benefits of that but we’ve got funding to try that for three years I’m really proud of the fact that um we’ve got that defition uh and the other Hatcher team worked on a thing called truss house Tru SS which is a breakthrough piece of technology where people will be able to build houses for sometimes less money no more expensive build houses that you don’t need to heat you don’t need to

01:33:37 cool uh they’re going to last longer communities can build them using existing materials um they’ll be far um resistant as well um and uh that that first house is being built by one of our members um in Hawks Bay very very soon and what’s been interesting with both of those is how a wickedly good idea is so hard to get going and how much support it needs to support an individual with a big idea and we need to get way better at that in New Zealand because we need to be more more Innovative and all that

01:34:23 sort of stuff but the system there that exist generally doesn’t want that stuff to happen because it disrupts Supply chains and all that whole lot of things status and all that sort of stuff so um that’s a model that we’re really proud of and creating more impact and um and all the time all of it is based around diverse teams uh working together and so up until now we’ve been just working with individuals but now we’re working now with Concepts and working now with uh organizations so I’m really I’m really

01:35:03 um looking forward to seeing how that rolls out on the near future yeah with more scale watch watch their space watch space yeah well I feel like if anyone can do it it’s going to be you guys and and I think that’s reflective of your challenge in nailing your marketing is when doing Fringe stuff which has never been done before it’s hard to bring in you know standardized marketing parlons to encapsulate it it’s it’s very much like when I was trying to connect to the idea of purpose I’m not a smart fellow

01:35:35 it took me about five years to just go to the dictionary and go what is the definition of purpose because someone has actually collated all the words in the world and given them a meaning but when you’re trying to connect to these sort of slightly more ethereal ideas and things they haven’t been given a name before so you know don’t be too hard on yourself um I feel like it’s it has been a journey and it will be a journey and sometime at some point it will just it will land or it will keep Landing better

01:36:00 but I think it’s part of the you know the anti-authoritarian streak in you that is still there which we need and I think is has got you to where where you are today it’s that whole again that purpose Journey you know the Phoenix burn off the Flames okay well maybe I just need to tone down the anti-authoritarianism there’s no point burning down Parliament House um how do I work within the system to make the change to I think we’ve sort been on a bit of a similar Journey on that because when I first had my as I

01:36:24 call it hard brexit from the corporate world I was like yeah let’s just burn the burn the place down from scratch well that’s not going to work and it turns out people don’t want to hang out with that energy either oddly enough don’t know why um whereas yeah build a better party have the better party on the street hey what’s what’s har doing that like the music sounds pretty cool and the beers tastes really nice oh it’s what’s he doing it’s way way more fun than our party so yeah keep on keep on

01:36:47 doing yeah thanks and and you know the thing that Gman great hypers that we can we can play in so many different spaces because of the uh you know the thousand of people who’ve worked so far and the network got the community and that that community and it’s interesting that when we’ve put those teams together because up until now we’ve done all of that for free uh and um we funded that ourselves and all the people who been involved in it uh have uh not been paid and it’s interesting of the dozens of people have

01:37:21 asked to be involved only one said no and that was for a personal reason and you know people want to do good when they given a chance and um you know Humanity uh you know can be wickedly positive sometimes yeah a cool I can’t remember who said it but basically you know no no one ever regretted doing good no I think that’s true I think that’s true just give it a go you know um yeah um let’s finish up with with two two short far questions to finish off with um what what do you think if if you had a magic wand what is the one big

01:38:06 thing that you would change that would Advance the sort of purpose– driven world or or take us to to a better future world like yeah if we gave half the magic wand you’re in control of the world for the day what’s the thing that you would change or get rid of second question I’ll think about that um who uh who do you think that should be a Bop that isn’t currently a Bop oh that’s a good question um Farmers there we go farmers and we’ve got one now with Harare station yep right who we gave gave a bit of a hand

01:38:39 to and it’s interesting on the back of that we’ve had two Farms reach out and go okay so watch this space excellent because I’ve been poking that beer for a long time and I still mix back in the farm world and bring up B Corp and you know many of them have never heard of it before and going look um you know it’s it’s I think it’s going to be really important going forward uh Tim that you know as a farming nation that um you know regenerative agriculture and all that sort of stuff uh is a big deal what’s the first

01:39:13 question again um so you if you had a magic wand like what would be the thing that you would fix or give give more of make the world place there you go so I would uh I resisted regenerative farming for eight years and I documented that my resistance to it uh and then I’ve been we’ve still got a small block of land and we farmed that Reg generatively and uh I’ve documented that Journey as well and how at times I’ve just wanted to go back and I use The Agrarian cocaine uh of nitrogen and phosphate um give me a boost um so that

01:39:55 would be that would be my magic one is that uh regenerative farming when it’s understood and it’s utilized it is so um the impact it can have on the environment is phenomenal and the impact it has on human beings is phenomenal because it’s so good for your mental health farming regeneratively uh and so that would be my magic wand um Tim is is to for New Zealand to um give up the the the aguan cocaine to embrace and understand nature and understand that we are nature and that uh the benefits are just phenomenal

01:40:49 there you go that’s my magic one love it and and the benefits to the consumer as well having probably better quality you know it’s interesting pesticides Etc yeah it’s look it’s it’s all of that but it’s the thing is you know we just ordered some bumblebee boxes yesterday now I was going toy I was going to build my own bumblebee boxes but I thought actually let’s just buy from these people who are building bumbleb boxers and because they’ve got a little business and so let’s support that rather than you know um so um dishing

01:41:24 out a few hundred to buy these boxes the I’ve never thought about doing that before time you know uh and um it just the the layers of this thing go on and on and on in my I’m not sure if it’s a question I don’t care uh I learned last year how to make Johnson Sue compost now if nobody listen remembers anything about this look up Johnson Sue compost which is a husband and wife team have developed a compost making system that produces High fungal uh uh compost most compost is bacterial dominant this is a fungal

01:42:14 dominant um we have used this at 1 kilo per hectare uh on our little farm and what it does it boosts the amount of fungi in the soil which increases the ability of the plants to share nutrients and pick up nutrients and um sheare water and um this is groundbreaking stuff and so if you think as a kid Farms when I was a kid we used to have mushrooms everywhere we don’t have mushrooms anymore on farms or very few of them that’s because because the bacterial load has got so high dominated the fungi and so that’s a

01:42:57 sign that the soils are not happy so um if nothing else Johnson Su s Su SP o that’s um husband wife team and uh We’ve started making industrial quantities of this stuff introducing to Massi University very soon uh it is a groundbreaking bloody um uh thing that will just make our soils um in a forest floor you have fungi in there because you’ve got all the layers there what we’re trying to do we’re not going to be able to get the same population as under a forest or native Forest but um we will be able to

01:43:41 build huge fungal communities in the soil which Mak some more porous less flooding um able to share whole raft of things and produces more nutritious food what a crazy idea food that’s nutritious yeah it might catch on yeah might catch on that’s not the Cals yeah well have as always it’s been I just I love hanging out with you I feel like we haven’t been hanging out enough last week well hasn’t helped you you have been on a we didn’t even get into your sabatical maybe we get you back on to talk about the benefits of a

01:44:19 sabatical as well um but yeah I just love what you’re doing um you know the world needs more halves who just go and park bears and point out elephants and just sit back and let people ponder that um I feel like we’re pretty Kindred Spirits in in that regard I think that’s possibly what we get on we we like to Rouse the rabble because someone’s got to do it um so yeah thank you so much for giving me time to chat to us um this has been one of my I don’t tell the others but this has been my favorite

01:44:47 episode of the podcast so far today oh you say that to all the girls I don’t I’ve only said that to a couple of people so far um so been a pleasure I I’ve been looking forward to this and um uh good luck with the podcast uh thanks be for the questions and you can find us um yes how do people get hold of you yeah Collective intelligence. co.nz can find us drop us a note and there um if you’re interested um we are building teams all the time and um uh just remember it’s not about the stages and so forth where

01:45:27 you’re interested in working with people from any sector at any level any age um if you’re up for developing if you’re up for helping other people uh helping us off that’s our home yeah I’m get amongst that awesome all right mate will you have a great weekend and hopefully we’ll see you soon thanks Tom byebye byebye how do we how do we end the Live cast it’s been a while hey it’s Tim here that bot bloke from grow good if you want more content on purpose Bop how to do more good in the world as an individual or a business

01:46:03 then you know the drill hit the like And subscribe check out some other videos they’re probably floating around here somewhere you know how it works thank you so much see you next time